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Joined: Feb 13, 2005 Posts: 4509 Location: The Rock Boudoir
Premium Member
Summary.
Got there at 11, and it actually wasn't that bad. Varied tunes, plus some standard fayre. Then the last hour was shit. Massive gaps between songs, which cleared the dance floor. When people leave the floor, why play the same tpye of songs? Read the crowd FFS. I think I heard the same Machine Head song played 3 times. Do you not share your set lists? The earlier DJs were fine, although requests seemed to go unheeded.
It was all going so well, but some of the DJs (well one in particular) really couldn't give a shit. We pay quite a sizeable amount to get in, expecting some kind of organised affair with music that is played that reflects the crowd. Summed up, you play metal/hard rock, the floor is full. You play punk/emo/green day shit, it's empty. For the latter nothing is done to remedy it.
Don't get me wrong - I still go because there are times when it's actually fun, but some of the time it's because there's nowhere else to go that plays this kind of music.
Can there be some kind of request list at the Waterfront on the night? Punters can scribble down some songs that all the DJs can try to fit in and cross them off when played? Be nice to hear some newer stuff too... _________________
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 5203 Location: Norwich
totally agreed dude, we didn't know what the fuck was going on either and by the end of the night we were all as confused as the rest of the fellow rockers as they started to play loads of punk. my request was ignored which irritated me rather alot as it would have probably got some rocking out going on, the bloke who kept fucking up and having long silences/low volume music seemed to be pissed before he even got up there, therefore i would recommend not letting the dj's get pissed as it really does hinder the enjoyment that the crowd has.
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 1038 Location: UEA Norwich, Ipswich
Okay I couldn't make it this month because at the time I was actually too broke to eat and had no immediate employment prospects (got a job now, yay!). However I still think I'm qualified to comment seeing how I DJ'd at abut 3 of the last 6 Wraiths.
1) More obsucre requests get played at the beginning. Yes Black Dahlia Murder / Emperor / Vio-Lence are awesome, but they clear the floor faster than a fat nekkid manboy. If you get offended that I'm not gonna play some obscure black metal band when everyone wants to dance to Bon Jovi then sorry but it's not in the best interests of people there.
2) Requests. When I play I reckon I play about 75% of bands requested (about half of those I'll play the actual song, or at least tell the person requesting what I've got). However some songs won't 'fit in' with a certain set, or some DJs refuse to play some stuff because either they don't have it or they hate it. (Sorry, but I don't think Norwich is going to kill me for refusing to play Nickelback). One good example is In Flames. A lot of people really like them but I don't (and therefore don't have any stuff or know what songs would sound good). What I'll do instead however is tell the next DJ that In Flames were requested and see what he can do.
Another irritating part of requests is the repeat request. I've had songs requested literally two songs after I've played them. One obnoxious kid even berated me for not playing real metal like Pantera WHILE I WAS PLAYING FUCKING HOSTILE.
3) Drunk DJs. Okay here's something you might not know. Wraith is not a money-spinning event for DJs. People do it for the fun of it, and for a lot of ppl, getting pissed is simply part of going to Wraith. You honestly can't be expecting a bunch of metalheads to become mormons for 4 hours on a Saturday night can you?
However, I also appreciate that people pay to come to Wraith, (Hell I've been doing it for over 3 years!) and expect a basic minimum of competence from the DJs out of respect. This is where my absence last week puts me in a position where I can't really comment fully. However, in the last 3 years I can't think of one occaision where the DJs have actually fucked up so badly people have had a crappy night.
Hopefully that's been of some help and I haven't come off as an obnoxious twat. Wraith is awesome and hopefully I'll be back soon to play some awesome tracks for you to bang your heads to.
EDIT: Re 'new stuff' I've played brand spanking new tracks by Atreyu, Lordi, Therapy? and Dog Fashion Disco. And pretty new stuff by Black Dahlia Murder, Mindless Self Indulgence and Rob Zombie.
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 1364 Location: Norwich
Meh, I had a good time. I always do. I'm normally wankered by the time I get there which helps.
Greater variety would be nice but I appreciate my tastes won't fit in with everyone there. I'd fucking love to hear some Otep for example but I can't see it happening. Backyard Babies too but last time one of theirs was played, the dance floor was empty apart from me prancing about like a loon.
CD player jammed and wouldn't eject, we quickly plugged in the mini disc player but only had a few discs. Sorry if you had a shite time.
As for sets, due to popular demand we now have about 8 DJ's rotating on a monthly basis, all playing variations on an alternative theme. Sad but true (every pun intended), I've been at every single Wraith over the past 10 years and I know for a fact that we try and play as many requests as we can, we mix up the sets as much as possible but we still have to be commercially viable, Cannibal Corpse at 1.30 aint gonna happen, 11.30 you may hear it. I know we play some of the same songs over and over, but its what you request and if we don't play them you get the arse with us. Your never gonna please all the people all the time but as we've always said if you don't like it don't come, start your own club nights where you can hear exactly what you want to hear, give it 3 months and you will have people moaning.
Saying that, Wraith is still the most popular night upstairs at the Waterfront so we can't be fucking everyone off. Personally I'd rather have 200 people jumping around to the more commercial end of the spectrum , than 10 music snobs getting their kicks dancing to the most extreme shite metal just to look cool!
Joined: Feb 13, 2005 Posts: 4509 Location: The Rock Boudoir
Premium Member
Hey I agree with all the DJs comments on here, and agree that towards the end of the night, you want predictable stuff that makes you want to rock your little metal socks off, and I can understand that sometimes technical snaffles do occur and you have to make the best of them that you can.
What I can't understand, and I hark back to my OP, is why, when you clear the dance floor with shit punk/pop punk/indie/emo/whatever bollocks, you keep playing it. I can understand not wanting to play the same songs over and over, and I totally agree, but playing songs that clear dance floors, and this is usually punk sets at Wratih, aren't good DJ practice.
I don't mind hearing the less known stuff earlier (in fact, I think Unearth was played a few months back really early and me and Pete were the only ones dancing and looking like twats, but we didn't care), and the more mainstream stuff later when people want to hear it. This usually makes for a good night, but when the night finishes with a set with an empty dance floor, you can't help but wonder.
I've been going to Wraith for about 6 years now, and I will keep going because even if I don't enjoy it sometimes, I think it's important to keep the night seemingly popular otherwise we'll lose another alternative night in Norwich, which would suck all balls.
All I ask is that requests are heeded more often (OK if you get some douchebag requests or songs that have been played 4 times already, then don't play them), and that you get rid of the punk (and associated) sets and leave them to Rawkus where people actually go to dance to it. At Wraith, this doesn't happen - people don't dance to punk sets.
Sorry if I came across as a party pooper! I do like Wraith! _________________
CD player jammed and wouldn't eject, we quickly plugged in the mini disc player but only had a few discs. Sorry if you had a shite time.
As for sets, due to popular demand we now have about 8 DJ's rotating on a monthly basis, all playing variations on an alternative theme. Sad but true (every pun intended), I've been at every single Wraith over the past 10 years and I know for a fact that we try and play as many requests as we can, we mix up the sets as much as possible but we still have to be commercially viable, Cannibal Corpse at 1.30 aint gonna happen, 11.30 you may hear it. I know we play some of the same songs over and over, but its what you request and if we don't play them you get the arse with us. Your never gonna please all the people all the time but as we've always said if you don't like it don't come, start your own club nights where you can hear exactly what you want to hear, give it 3 months and you will have people moaning.
Saying that, Wraith is still the most popular night upstairs at the Waterfront so we can't be fucking everyone off. Personally I'd rather have 200 people jumping around to the more commercial end of the spectrum , than 10 music snobs getting their kicks dancing to the most extreme shite metal just to look cool!
I'm sure we've been here before.........
Perhaps I should come and see if I've still got it one night Chris.......I miss the old place. If you'll have me of course!
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 1038 Location: UEA Norwich, Ipswich
Chriswraith wrote:
Anyway just about had enough of Wraith and I'm seriously considering pulling the plug.....but don't I always say that?
That would make a grand total of 0 (zero) Waterfront nights worth going to in a month. People should be a little more grateful of what they've got beore they lose it (i.e. the Ferryboat).
Perhaps I should come and see if I've still got it one night Chris.......I miss the old place. If you'll have me of course!
Always welcome mate, though as we discussed recently, Norwich isn't much fun for going out in these days, full of retards, or are we just old?
Anyway just about had enough of Wraith and I'm seriously considering pulling the plug.....but don't I always say that?
I do believe we discussed that yes, I think we're just old........
This thread comes around EVERY single month, about what gets played etc.
We've covered the reasons as to why obscure stuff gets played early, mainstream stuff at peak hours and hair rock and other stuff to end the night.
It's all about 'bums on seats' or in this case 'punters on the dancefloor'. I think people seem to forget that The Waterfront doesn't owe Norwich an alternative night.
At any one time they can turn around and say 'No more WRAITH' so for as long as the night is making money it will remain.
However, if the MAJORITY, yes MAJORITY of punters get fucked off cos the DJ is playing some obscure band that nobody except a handful of mates have heard , then they will a) leave the room, b) go home and c) probably not turn up the next month.
Thus losing the Waterfront profits. It's a business not a fucking youth club and therefore the venue has to make money. It's really that simple.
Plus if people don't get their one song played then is it REALLY that big a deal? I mean, seriously. Just go home after WRAITH stick it in your stereo and turn the volume up. Voila, instant gratification.
I understand that people want a bit of variety and hopefully the WRAITH requests threads are helping with this but come on people, no night is ever going to be perfect.
The one thing I will say although I haven't been for a while and Chris, you can tell me to go fuck myself here, but would it be a valid point to make that maybe there are a few too many DJ's?
What I mean is that with eight different DJ's it opens up the potential for repeating tracks and losing cohesion on the night by throwing in too many different styles?
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 5203 Location: Norwich
i know that people may not be there for a certain song but just say to them that it has already been played, i would rather be told that than ignored, or if i was there for it the first time, hear it a possible twice more. i requested chimaira which yes is heavy but it is something you can goon about to.
i am not trying to have a go, even though i may should like it am, i am just saying that these things do tend to annoy people.
now we understand what was wrong with the cd player i think we can all let that one go, maybe the cd player just felt a bit hungry.
as for the bit about wraith being an alternative night, i think it has turned itself into a bit of a nicé, just as britpoppin' has, if you were to play punk etc then it would be more like a rawkus, wraith has its own little following so i think possibly removing the punk stuff (the last half an hour) would be good as you wouldn't see people move out so early then.
as for the getting pissed bit, sorry but if you want to go up there and play records then don't get pissed, you are there to entetain people and if you act like a twat because of the drink then why bother being there. it is exactly the same as a band, would you get so drunk that you couldn't play your instrument properly? if so then you shouldn't be playing. i am pretty sire all of the dj's are older than me so if i can see how you should be in a situation like that then why can't they?
apologies for seeming harsh but i have just started to get a horrible cold and the server at work fucked up so we have lost days of work etc.
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 1038 Location: UEA Norwich, Ipswich
Nickolai wrote:
The one thing I will say although I haven't been for a while and Chris, you can tell me to go fuck myself here, but would it be a valid point to make that maybe there are a few too many DJ's?
What I mean is that with eight different DJ's it opens up the potential for repeating tracks and losing cohesion on the night by throwing in too many different styles?
When Chris says 8 different DJs on rotation he means no more than 3 or 4 different ones a night max. (Was just me, Paul and Chris last time I played) I think that's the right compromise between making sure it's not too spotty, but allowing for some variation. I've been every month for the last 6 or 7 months (excluding the last one due to dire financial situation as explained above) and haven't heard a single song repeated despite those fukken idiots asking for Angel of Death over and over.
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 1580 Location: Norwich
I'd be interested in DJ'ing, if there's the occasional slot free? Wouldn't want to do it every month but am about for most of them? Have 200+ cd's, can play good mix of floor fillers & newer stuff. Haven't done it for several years now (used to help Andy out years back) but sure I've still got the beef.
Contact if you're interested, if not just play some Alice in Chains next time lol!
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