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Forum Index » Technical Help » A blindingly simple electronics question...

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 A blindingly simple electronics question...
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RomanyMallard
Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:09 pm  Reply with quote

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If you're connecting something to a voltage source of 0V....


such as might look a little something like this on a schematic diagram...


--------O 0V


how do you do that? & what is the difference between this and grounding?

All answers welcome, especially patronizingly simple ones. ta
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BJG
Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:10 pm  Reply with quote

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Hmm...sounds like the difference between ground and neutral... which actually seems quite subtle for a non-electrician. Ground seems to be mainly a safety thing.

Quote:
A Neutral represents a reference point within an electrical distribution system...a Ground represents an electrical path, normally designed to carry fault current when an insulation breakdown occurs


http://www.ab.com/drives/techpapers/rfignds.htm

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_Neutral_and_Ground

I get the impression that ground is kind of used as neutral in some circumstances.

Quote:
Under certain conditions, a conductor used to connect to a system neutral is also used for grounding (earthing) of equipment and structures. Current carried on a grounding conductor can result in objectionable or dangerous voltages appearing on equipment enclosures, so the installation of grounding conductors and neutral conductors is carefully defined in electrical regulations. Where a neutral conductor is used also to connect equipment enclosures to earth, care must be taken that the neutral conductor never rises to a high voltage with respect to local ground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_and_neutral

It's all bloody complicated.
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crazyeddie
Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 10:46 am  Reply with quote

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You know, I've wondered about the difference between neutral and EARTH (don't let those US forums get to you) for some time, as well as the difference between neutral and -ve (since some electrical circuits demand that live and neutral know their places, while in others they are entirely interchangable... for some reason this led me to think that live and neutral were somehow comparable to +ve and -ve.)

Wiki, my main source of dubiously-originated knowledge, has been largely useless. The name AC would suggest that the current on the live side sweeps back and forth, taking the voltage with it, between +240v and -240v. And the neutral is just neutral, and does nothing. In theory.
In practice, I shouldn't poke a meat skewer into the neutral hole to find out, cos all the other appliances in the house (and district) are pumping all their live current through neutral in order to give it somewhere to go?
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Pestilence
Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 12:45 pm  Reply with quote

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Ground and Earth are pretty interchangeable nowadays - my dad uses both and he's been dealing with electrical stuff since the 60s.

Basically, the Earth is a safety feature - if something in your electrical equipment goes wrong and there's voltage where there shouldn't be (normally the casing), it should run to ground and stop a potentially lethal (to the equipment AND you) discharge. It the equipment is working properly, the ground DOESN'T CARRY A CURRENT.

A Neutral MIGHT carry a current even if the gear is working correctly.

The important difference is that if the Earth suddenly gets a current running through it, it will blow the fuse/trip the power - because some part of the system has become live that shouldn't, and the best way to deal with that is to cut the power entirely. If the neutral gets a current run through it, it won't always blow the power - because it's designed to take currents if needs be (in fact, in modern equipment it's used a lot more than it was originally designed for).

Beyond that, I don't get involved with electronics - as if being colour-blind wasn't hazard enough, I still can't remember what the new colours are supposed be...

Steve
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Neil_Roy
Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:54 pm  Reply with quote

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If it's DC then 0V is ground/deck. Same thing.

Infact it can't be anything other than DC because mains/AC is at 0V 50 times a second, and is never documented as such. It would be shown as N.
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Neil_Roy
Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:56 pm  Reply with quote

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Pestilence wrote:


A Neutral MIGHT carry a current even if the gear is working correctly.

The important difference is that if the Earth suddenly gets a current running through it, it will blow the fuse/trip the power - because some part of the system has become live that shouldn't, and the best way to deal with that is to cut the power entirely. If the neutral gets a current run through it, it won't always blow the power - because it's designed to take currents if needs be (in fact, in modern equipment it's used a lot more than it was originally designed for).
Steve


Neutral always carries current - it flows in a loop. Utter nonsense.
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beardy6991
Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:10 pm  Reply with quote

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No, its ACDC! =]
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crazyeddie
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:52 am  Reply with quote

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It would be a bit bloody stupid to call it neutral if it's exactly equal to live in function, but then that's what confused me in the first place.
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Neil_Roy
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:10 pm  Reply with quote

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Think of it like a radiator in circuit, where the water within is current.

Heated water flows out of your boiler to the radiator, where it gets used, and then back again to the boiler. It doesn't just stop in the radiator!

From the boiler = Live.
Back to the boiler = Neutral.

There's water (current) everywhere, not just in the radiator and the pipes leading to it!

HTH.
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