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Joined: Jul 21, 2005 Posts: 493 Location: On a Ragga Tip
Yeah, don't think you can ever rely on monitors. Prime example of why i don't enjoy playing live that much. Personally i think a band should be able to set up on stage however they want at whichever volume they see fit (within reason - intelligent volumes - not competition with other band members of who has the loudest amp volume!) and then the guy doing the 'mixing' should do the rest. The amount of times i get asked to turn my amp down, or remove some of the bass until my amp sounds like a pile of shit. I didn't spend all that money to run my amp at bedroom level! Then i'm left with an amp i can't hear so that all i can hear is the drums, and no monitor to make up for it.
I've always been confused by venues and their different attitudes towards bands. Back in the day with Dead Stars we played about 8 different venues in the space of 2 weeks and it wasn't until we got back to norwich that the waterfront told us that our drummers snare was too loud! Admittedly his snare was loud, but we'd played tiny places and the waterfront was one of the bigger venues, and they were the first people to have a problem with it!
Ideally i think every band should get their own sound guy so you never get this problem. I don't think i've played a single gig with Ostracoda without somebody telling me after the gig that "The guitars were a bit quiet"!!!
We're playing the B2 in october (4th if you're interested - CD & Video launch party!!) so hopefully we'll get a good sound guy up there.
Yeah, don't think you can ever rely on monitors. Prime example of why i don't enjoy playing live that much. Personally i think a band should be able to set up on stage however they want at whichever volume they see fit (within reason - intelligent volumes - not competition with other band members of who has the loudest amp volume!) and then the guy doing the 'mixing' should do the rest. The amount of times i get asked to turn my amp down, or remove some of the bass until my amp sounds like a pile of shit. I didn't spend all that money to run my amp at bedroom level! Then i'm left with an amp i can't hear so that all i can hear is the drums, and no monitor to make up for it.
I've always been confused by venues and their different attitudes towards bands. Back in the day with Dead Stars we played about 8 different venues in the space of 2 weeks and it wasn't until we got back to norwich that the waterfront told us that our drummers snare was too loud! Admittedly his snare was loud, but we'd played tiny places and the waterfront was one of the bigger venues, and they were the first people to have a problem with it!
Ideally i think every band should get their own sound guy so you never get this problem. I don't think i've played a single gig with Ostracoda without somebody telling me after the gig that "The guitars were a bit quiet"!!!
We're playing the B2 in october (4th if you're interested - CD & Video launch party!!) so hopefully we'll get a good sound guy up there.
Yeah, why dont soundguys understand that valve amps need to be opened up to some sort of volume to get them sounding good! You also really need to get the speakers moving to get the best tone. While recording i had my 100watt DSL pushed round to 7 on the volume which is massively loud, but its how the amp sounded best! The Diezel VH4 we didnt push as hard but it has alot more pre-map gain.
The b2 has always been the worst venue for sound, its a shame because the PA they have is more than up to the job, maybe the people they have operating it arent.
Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 2672 Location: in front of the fish tank in sith studio
Premium Member
i agree with you there tim, apart from the last bit- i've always found the sound there to be ace. last band i saw were the agonyst and the sounded fucking spot on. _________________ still lowering the average iq since 1975
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 4695 Location: aylsham
timmysoft wrote:
The b2 has always been the worst venue for sound, its a shame because the PA they have is more than up to the job, maybe the people they have operating it arent.
I agree with that, I have had problems in the past with the sound at the brickmakers and it is the same guy who now does the b2. He is meant to be a soundguy and should know his stuff but really doesn't seem to, it is a shame because they could be a quality venue. _________________ -one person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter-
We were fine at the B2, but I spose it's different for a 3-piece. Then again I've never actually used a monitor because, on a stage like the B2, you're never more than a foot away from your amp and I get all my cues from the drums. _________________ The Vanguard - www.myspace.com/VanguardUK
Debut E.P. "Massive Brutal Robots" available now!
Ive only played at B2 once, and i thought the sound there was pretty awesome actually! The sound guy did a good job, by me anyways.
I dont think i had any moniters working there either, just the PA and my amp (which was also put through the PA). But yeah, its a bit new and shiney and stuff. If thats the worst thing you can say about a venue then its not bad at all. _________________ Ndx
The b2 has always been the worst venue for sound, its a shame because the PA they have is more than up to the job, maybe the people they have operating it arent.
I agree with that, I have had problems in the past with the sound at the brickmakers and it is the same guy who now does the b2. He is meant to be a soundguy and should know his stuff but really doesn't seem to, it is a shame because they could be a quality venue.
Agreed. Sound wasn't great but what fucked me off the most is he turned up stupidly late. I think he actually arrived when the first band were due to go on. It was bollocks. No apology just a rushed job. I specifically told the venue when I booked the gig that we would start at whatever time aswell and they said the sound guy would be there well beforehand. _________________ We are standing on the edge.
Yeah, don't think you can ever rely on monitors. Prime example of why i don't enjoy playing live that much. Personally i think a band should be able to set up on stage however they want at whichever volume they see fit (within reason - intelligent volumes - not competition with other band members of who has the loudest amp volume!) and then the guy doing the 'mixing' should do the rest. The amount of times i get asked to turn my amp down, or remove some of the bass until my amp sounds like a pile of shit. I didn't spend all that money to run my amp at bedroom level! Then i'm left with an amp i can't hear so that all i can hear is the drums, and no monitor to make up for it.
I've always been confused by venues and their different attitudes towards bands. Back in the day with Dead Stars we played about 8 different venues in the space of 2 weeks and it wasn't until we got back to norwich that the waterfront told us that our drummers snare was too loud! Admittedly his snare was loud, but we'd played tiny places and the waterfront was one of the bigger venues, and they were the first people to have a problem with it!
Ideally i think every band should get their own sound guy so you never get this problem. I don't think i've played a single gig with Ostracoda without somebody telling me after the gig that "The guitars were a bit quiet"!!!
We're playing the B2 in october (4th if you're interested - CD & Video launch party!!) so hopefully we'll get a good sound guy up there.
Turning up your amps to whatever isnt a wise move in small venues like the b2, because this will effect the overall live sound dramatically. However, vavle amps are so much better when they are cranked up so everyone should turn up. Its completely different in big venues of course because amps are essentially personal monitors. If your a bassist, this is probably why the gutiars sound quiet!!
As for any sound engineer who isnt employed by you telling you to change your EQ, you can tell him where to go. Its your personal tone, not his. I had a massive arguement with the sound engineer at the Joiners in Southampton. I was guitar teching/tour managing a band on their headline tour, sell out show, pretty big tour [good to go tour infact] and just as the headline band finished sound checking, literally as i was taking the guitars off stage he gets on stage, and starts changing the bass eq on the head. I went mental, said he had no right to touch any of our gear and told him to fuck off. He didnt like it too much. he wasnt too old either, mid 20's. The sound was pretty good mind. Although he refused to change the sound of the click drum, he made it stupidally clickly, and i did try to explain we werent iron maiden but he didnt understand. This is why we are getting our own engineer
In house sound engineers are pretty much all idiots who think they are the dogs bollox, when infact, they are nobodies, thats why they are in-house sound engineers and not touring engineers.
And monitors are useless unless there is a proper monitor engineer at the side of the stage or you are headlining with set channels that wont get changed at all from sound check till show.
As for the snare being too loud, more bullshit. Thats his natural playing style, its loud, it shouldnt be a problem for any sound engineer thats half decent.
B2 could be rather good indeed given just a little bit more. I think they need a more experienced co-ordinator in to organise everything alot more professionally. They run the b2 like the brickmakers and their is a big difference between pub gigs and venue gigs.
i think the b2 has a great live sound. we've played there loads of time and never had any problems i have always been able hear everything through my drum monitor and sometimes even asked for it to be turned down! The bands i have seen there always sound great too if sometimes a little bassey but i think that was more down to the equiment used than the engineer! i read this thread and decided it was time for someone to stand up for norwich venues rather than just sit around bitching! i think the b2 is probably the best venue in the city, apart from the location which can be a bit of a trek but it makes it a lot easier to put days on like the awesome brickfest last weekend because its not a residential! Anyone who did'nt go to see 30 bands for £2 which all went to charity you missed out big style!!
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 6062 Location: Camden County
timmysoft wrote:
Stillborn wrote:
Owning a mic would quickly solve one of those problems..
But when we were booked for this date and we posed the question " what gear do we need?" no microphones were mentioned in the reply. Wr've got plenty of our own mics, but if a venue claims to be able to supply them then we wont bring ours.
B2 have a house drum kit and amps too, but I assume you take your own?
Personally speaking I'd always take my own mic if I had one, even if they were being supplied by the venue. It's a 'hygiene' issue more than anything...I'm sure my fellow singers would agree! _________________
Owning a mic would quickly solve one of those problems..
But when we were booked for this date and we posed the question " what gear do we need?" no microphones were mentioned in the reply. Wr've got plenty of our own mics, but if a venue claims to be able to supply them then we wont bring ours.
B2 have a house drum kit and amps too, but I assume you take your own?
Personally speaking I'd always take my own mic if I had one, even if they were being supplied by the venue. It's a 'hygiene' issue more than anything...I'm sure my fellow singers would agree!
Yeah but we also have our own PA, we dont take that (despite the fact its about 4 times better than the b2's)
When a venue says, we have our own PA/mics plus soundman then why would we take gear that we dont need to? Theres very little room in our van as it is, every little bit of space is crucial. You'll also notice on the b2's website they say they have mics. They should probably say "we have some poorly maintained mics that are availabel for use if you use a mic stand or have no movement on stage". They also say that they have a soundd man from 7.00pm, they dont say about changing the soundguy at 8.30 because the more experienced one is needed in the other room.
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 6062 Location: Camden County
timmysoft wrote:
Yeah but we also have our own PA, we dont take that (despite the fact its about 4 times better than the b2's)
Well obviously you wouldn't, it may take a while to rip out B2's one and install yours.
timmysoft wrote:
When a venue says, we have our own PA/mics plus soundman then why would we take gear that we dont need to?
Jesus Christ, you can't squeeze three microphones into your van?
All I'm saying is that if you have your own mics then it may be a good idea to take them to a gig 'just in case' - whether the venue supplies them or not. Then when you have a mic fail on-stage next time, you can quickly swap it out for yours without fear of the next one being held together by duct tape and spittle.
I don't really see the difference between a singer taking his own mic to a gig over you taking your own amps or guitars to play through. Obviously the costs differ enormously and an SM58 is an SM58 just like the next one, but if you're a singer the mic IS your gear. Why wouldn't you take it, even if the venue is supplying full PA? _________________
you dont know how tight it would be to get three vocal mics into our van, the luggage store was built exactly for our gear, there really isnt any room for three more boxes or another case full of mics and leads!
you dont know how tight it would be to get three vocal mics into our van
Couldn't someone just carry them on their lap? Thats what I do with my mic. _________________ Myspace in progress: www.myspace.com/dirtylittlehabitrock
you dont know how tight it would be to get three vocal mics into our van
Couldn't someone just carry them on their lap? Thats what I do with my mic.
Its not really practical, the van is kitted out to sleep 5 people so there would be nowhere to actually store them over night, plus nobody wants to be travelling for 4 hours with a case full of mics on their lap.
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