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Okay, I plan to record my ROLAND TD-3 drumkit using EZ DRUMMER and a laptop.
I have since discovered the availability of MIDI to USB interface cables (which saves me buying a new sound card and as stated above I have a copy of EZ DRUMMER + DFH add-on)
So, can anyone a) recommend a decent MIDI to USB interface, preferrably not to pricey and b) enlighten me as to any potential hazards I may encounter recording using this method i.e latency and how to overcome it, sound card capabilities, laptop specs etc.....
Joined: Apr 19, 2005 Posts: 5138 Location: At the bottom of the garden, amongst the birds and the bees
Thomann seem to be slighlty more expensive since their re-design - they aren't always that cheap any more (and some of their 12" drivers a madly expensive).
Nick - the MIDI-to-USB cables are a waste of time. They're all essentially identical (the components are normally made by the same few companies whatever brand you buy), and the latency is just too high - I've got one and it's as bad as half a second sometimes. USB just wasn't designed for that kind of application. Saying that, if you want to borrow mine you're welcome to (if it works for you, you can buy if off me!).
The USB interfaces are cool though - never used one myself, but I know plenty of people that do. Lots of people make 'em too - M-Audio like Rob said, Edirol, E-MU, Lexicon, Behringer, Tascam. They're all pretty similar, so it's best to find one that suits you or that you find good reviews for - have a shufty at Thomann, they have a category for them Personally, I'd go for the E-MU 0404, because I use their stuff already and it's damn good (in their higher end stuff they use the same A/D converters as you get in Pro Tools HD units, for almost a hundreth of the price). It has optical I/O too, which is awesome for the price. They also make a little box called the Xmidi 2x2 which is essentially a USB-MIDI cable that's apparently quite good (I'm still not convinced though).
I'd also make a seemingly odd suggestion - if you can, set up the TD-3 kit but use your real cymbals if you can. Almost all USB interfaces have 2 XLR inputs, so you can set up a pair of overheads and record the cymbals like you would on an acoustic kit. The cymbal hits on electronic kits never sound right, and the samples in EZDrummer/DFH aren't that great either.
Steve _________________ If you're insulted, you're reading it wrong. You fucking imbecile.
"Enlightenment at the cost of my wings is not a price I am willing to pay"
Okay, I plan to record my ROLAND TD-3 drumkit using EZ DRUMMER and a laptop.
I have since discovered the availability of MIDI to USB interface cables (which saves me buying a new sound card and as stated above I have a copy of EZ DRUMMER + DFH add-on)
Thing is, the main problem isn't the speed with which the MIDI info gets transmitted to the PC, but the responsiveness of the audio hardware (ie the speed with which the PC plays your drum samples once it's received the trigger). As has often been said, for this you need a soundcard with ASIO support like the Emu 0404 mentioned above. Unless you have ASIO sound hardware, no MIDI-only gadget will let you trigger EZ Drummer from your drum pads in real-time with low latency. (You should still be able to record and play back with the Roland sounds OK, but I'm assuming you want the EZ Drummer sounds.)
Joined: Apr 19, 2005 Posts: 5138 Location: At the bottom of the garden, amongst the birds and the bees
That's not really an issue - if you're recording, you don't need to hear the final triggered sounds. Like you said, the MIDI kit should (I hope) have a brain box which will supply sounds during the actual recording - the sound isn't important then, only the performance.
When you're recording guitars you rarely hear the final sound (with eq, compression, blah blah blah). In fact a lot of bands now record clean - you just run the signal to a POD or amp-sim whilst you're recording, and reamp it through whatever proper gear you have later.
Steve _________________ If you're insulted, you're reading it wrong. You fucking imbecile.
"Enlightenment at the cost of my wings is not a price I am willing to pay"
This is true, though it's still nice to be able to hear the hits the way they're going to be on the final track as you're recording, as the different response changes the way you play.
It's not really - depends what you're trying to do. If you're happy to use Roland sounds when recording, any kind of cheap/nasty MIDI/USB cable or interface will do IMHO. If you want to hear EZ Drummer when recording, you'll need an ASIO-compliant USB or firewire MIDI/Audio interface for your laptop; get what you pay for, but prices probably start around £45 for something like an Edirol UA1-EX.
Only thing about USB, make sure your laptop USB ports and equipment are USB2, not USB1 - very different speed-wise. Here's the last time we all argued about this stuff for reference...
Joined: Apr 19, 2005 Posts: 5138 Location: At the bottom of the garden, amongst the birds and the bees
Yeah - I don't agree with BJG on the MIDI-to-USB cable (honestly, mine is a complete turkey, and I've not heard anyone say otherwise about one until), but hte rest of what's he's saying is right:
You won't need a top-end PC, because MIDI data isn't big and complicated - it's not processor intensive to record.
The issue is the latency - to hear the DFH sounds, the signal has to go into the computer, through EZ Drummer and back out to you without as little lag as possible (like 2ms). That's only so you can hear it as you record though, which isn't essential. You're MIDI kit will be able to play you it's own sounds almost instantly, whilst still recording the MIDI data to your laptop.
But, the Edirol he linked to should let you hear the EZ Drummer sounds during recording, and costs very little (it's not one I've seen before, good find!).
To be honest though, I'd prefer to have acoustic recordings anyway - and depending on how quickly you nail them, you could well record them for a few notes more. What you gain in convenience from MIDI recordings you'll never make up in sound - there's a very good reason people still record acoustic kits. It's fairly easy to trigger off an acoustic recording anyway, plus you can mix in the real sounds too, which gives a much better result.
Anyways - first step, PM me and we can arrange you borrowing my MIDI-to-USB cable and see if that works for you. That's a) free and b) as simple as it gets
Steve _________________ If you're insulted, you're reading it wrong. You fucking imbecile.
"Enlightenment at the cost of my wings is not a price I am willing to pay"
I'd also make a seemingly odd suggestion - if you can, set up the TD-3 kit but use your real cymbals if you can. Almost all USB interfaces have 2 XLR inputs, so you can set up a pair of overheads and record the cymbals like you would on an acoustic kit. The cymbal hits on electronic kits never sound right, and the samples in EZDrummer/DFH aren't that great either.
That's a really good idea. I always have issues with electronic kit cymbals, and that should solve the problem. Do you record the real cymbals while you're playing the electronic kit? Assuming you do, do you not get pad-hitting noises from the electronic kit? _________________ www.myspace.com/mathsband www.myspace.com/deirly
Joined: Feb 16, 2005 Posts: 2045 Location: norwich
Premium Member
1992 wrote:
Pestilence wrote:
I'd also make a seemingly odd suggestion - if you can, set up the TD-3 kit but use your real cymbals if you can. Almost all USB interfaces have 2 XLR inputs, so you can set up a pair of overheads and record the cymbals like you would on an acoustic kit. The cymbal hits on electronic kits never sound right, and the samples in EZDrummer/DFH aren't that great either.
That's a really good idea. I always have issues with electronic kit cymbals, and that should solve the problem. Do you record the real cymbals while you're playing the electronic kit? Assuming you do, do you not get pad-hitting noises from the electronic kit?
I would have thought that playing lightly would mean the acoustic cymbal hits would easily drown out the pad sounds. Plus the triggered drum sounds would also mask the sound of the pads. Might end up with a nice pronounced attack if you mix in the pad hits with the triggered sounds, a bit like a click-pad on the bass drum _________________
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